This data was published in Spring 2018 so it covers the graduating Class of 2017 — however we expect these trends to be even more pronounced in the Class of 2018 data as it becomes available. As you look at this information, please keep in mind that it covers full-time programs at a wide range…
(Trigger Warning: We’re talking about ETHICS again today. If that just turns your stomach, click away now.) We’ve walked through our stance on ethics and applying in a school’s binding Early Decision round plenty o’ times before on the blahg. (Which isn’t really “our stance.” It’s more like, “This is how a person of honor…
There is no “one thing” that’s going to get you in to bschool. But there are many things that matter, in many different ways. We cover the common myths and misunderstandings here quite a bit and today’s post is yet another attempt to educate the next crop of eager Brave Supplicants who are pondering the…
This is a follow-on to some previous GRE vs GMAT posts. In case you missed those: GMAT vs GRE strategy questions: Which to take for an MBA? “I took the GMAT. If I take the GRE now, do I still have to submit the GMAT score in my MBA app?” This question isn’t about admissions…
Given: You want an MBA in order to get a better job. Given: You’re very focused on getting into the most prestigious school that you can. Given: You want there to be lots of recruiters coming to campus to ply you with gifts recruit your bada$$ self into this great new future career you’ve imagined…
Short answer: Much less than what your peers graduating with MBAs into consulting and finance are making.
Scary answer: Maybe not any more than you’re making today???
Here’s some information captured in a tiny-ass footnote towards the end of the Chicago Booth Class of 2016 Employment Report :
Accepted offers in these functions include graduates working at start-ups: Analytics/Data Science (1), Business Development (4), Finance, Other (1), General Management (3), Sales (1), and Operations: Production/Supply Chain Management/Logistics (3). In total, 2.6% of accepted offers for the class of 2016 were with start-ups. For base salary, the minimum was $85,000, the maximum was $144,383, and the median was $119,000.
That comes at the end of the table that reports a whopping $215k salary for a 2016 grad who went into investment management. We don’t think that the Booth Career Services peeps were trying to bury that info; in fact, they’re probably quite proud of the fact that so many of their grads went to startups, given how, you know, startups are a thing these days. It’s definitely how Booth is trying to position itself. (That and McKinsey. They also sent 26 grads to McKinsey last year. Yeah, that.)
This footnote is really just trying to help you understand why salaries were so low in some of those categories. It’s not making excuses; it’s actually a bragworthy bit o’ detail.
It’s also notable to catch the footnote on the following page, which lists the internships that the Class of 2017 landed:
Accepted offers in these functions include students doing summer internships at start-ups: Business Development (12), Consulting (4), Corporate Strategy/Strategic Planning (1), Company Finance (Analysis/Treasury) (1), Venture Capital (3), Finance, Other (1), General Management (1), Brand/Product Management (3), Marketing, Other (1), Operations: Production/Supply Chain Management/Logistics (1), and Product Management (Tech) (3). In total, 5.4% of accepted offers for the class of 2017 were with start-ups. For monthly base salary, the minimum was $1,000, the maximum was $8,333, and the median was $4,000.
The trend appears to be, “Do a startup during the summer, but then get a real job when I graduate.” We’ll have to see what happens to those 31 kids next year. It’s certainly a low-risk way to find out if the startup life is for you.
If you’re planning on joining a startup post-MBA, we do hope that you’ve been doing your research.
Take a look at the numbers.
What salary can you actually expect?
(Note: Facebook is not a startup.)
Be sure you’re doing your research, o nobly born. Know what you’re walking your brave heart into.
The median is still nothing to sneeze at for that startup cohort – but it may not be what your starry-eyed self had in mind.
Update June 2017: Here’s some research that says graduating MBAs take $15,000 less in first salary than those taking more traditional post-MBA jobs.
As a little internal research project here in Snarkville recently, we did some back-of-the-envelope comparisons of a few randomly selected bschools, looking at salary. As would be expected, there are some real differences. Stanford’s average salary across their Class of 2015 was $133,406, which is 11% higher ($13,587 more) than Darden’s, at $119,819. That’s going…
OK, well maybe not “only” – but primarily. Don’t believe us? Check out this passage from someone who recruits senior execs: Things I rarely pay attention to [when scanning a resume] Education: In the last month alone, having viewed hundreds of resumes, I honestly don’t remember looking at this section once. When I used…
In a mini-chastisement blahg post back in January, we tsk-tsked over those long-forgotten BSers who said they’d send us a little something to capture their trials and tribulations of applying to bschool, and then never did. We laid out several instances of ghosting that we were on the receiving end of.
Well lo and behold! We never expected our
guilt-trip post words of advice to be so well received! One very very long-ago BSer resurfaced and immediately sent us something. And it’s golden!
Thank you to this former BSer, not just for coming through on something, but also for how great it is! A dose of realism and practicality for many. Here it is for all of you next-generation up-and-comers.
Hey Snark, long time no see, eh?
I still follow your blahg and got the message from the “Success Stories that never materialized” post. So, I’m gonna try to make it right and give you my (top3-Minto style MBA mumbo-jumbo) thoughts about this journey so far.
Just to contextualize, as you (or your CRM system) might remember, before BS I was working as a consultant for [top firm] in [country] – frustrated with unskilled/impolite (way beyond the moral harassment line) bosses and my career prospects. I applied to a few 1Y programs (Kellogg, Cornell, Emory and Ivey) and got accepted in all except for Kellogg. Before putting the money down for Cornell I approached you to discuss the Emory “95% scholarship” vs Cornell “no-scholarship” conundrum. [We have a bunch of posts on “deciding on a school (multiple offers)” category on the blahg and we also can help new clients with such decisions through our Private Consult service. -ES] Went to Cornell, had an intense summer (20 credits in 8 weeks), and landed a job at [top consulting firm] (doing a similar job, with much nicer/qualified bosses, and making 4-5 times my pre-MBA paycheck).
So, here are my top3 thoughts about BSchool:
- Recruiting starts before BSchool
- Being a foreigner I initially underestimated the importance of networking in the US. I mean, from where I come from it’s seen as (at least a bit) inappropriate to try to build connections within a firm before applying for a job. Not in the US, here is part of the “courtship ritual”, and the best way to do it is to start networking before you get to BSchool. Aim for the graduating students first, as most will have some networks within companies, and offer you a low risk (if you end up blowing the informationals they won’t care much, nor have the power to block you). Start shooting requests for informationals by end of April/beginning of May to catch them in a good mood, but first read “The 2-Hour Job Search” by Steve Dalton to avoid stupid mistakes.
- Immigration matters actually matter
- I’m not going to sugarcoat this – the US H1B immigration system is broken (read this article if you’re interested). It is a pain to go through all the recruiting process, land a competitive job, and end up getting kicked out of the US in the end of your OPT visa due to a broken lottery system (don’t assume that just because you got a job in a multinational firm they’ll happily transfer you abroad and bring you back next year). Honestly, knowing what I do now, I’d have taken Ivey’s offer much more seriously, as Canada offfers a meritocratic immigration system (where the incentives to bring in qualified people exist/work).
- It’s not over until it’s over
- After getting 2 job offers I gave up on recruiting, withdrawing from a ton of final round interviews. Now I regret that decision, because having more options gives you more leverage to negotiate (as long as you do it the smart way – kindly asking, not demanding). This is a key point here: even if you’re tired and landed the dream job, give it a shot and go through all your final round interviews.
I hope this helps future applicants (at least helps me to come through my commitments… lol).
We told you there was good stuff here!! THANK YOU, FORMER BSER! Very interesting insights, in so many ways. We also recently had some posts from a different international student who struggled with immigration issues for a significant other. If there are any more of your past-season lurkers out there who want to offer your own advice to add to these that we’ve seen recently, we would surely appreciate getting more like these!
All of you BSers out there gotta thank one of your peers for this one. A former BSer left a comment on a blahg post recently talking about a study they’d heard of out of INSEAD that showed that GMAT scores were correlated with post-MBA salaries. That was interesting enough that we went to look for it – but we couldn’t find it. Instead, we ended up finding this:
The authors found that one’s attitude in a multicultural environment and the extent to which they engaged with other cultures determined their degree of “integrative complexity”:
[I]ntegrative complexity refers to the willingness and capacity to acknowledge and integrate competing perspectives on the same issue.
And this, the authors claim, predicts future career success. Essentially, the better you are at incorporating others’ viewpoints into your own thought processes, and think things through from different perspectives, the more mentally agile you are – and the more likely you’ll be able to achieve greater success in the professional world as a result. The authors say that those who actively engage in these multicultural environments are better able to exhibit this integrative complexity.
They make it clear that it’s not just being in a new culture, it’s about being active./em>
Now granted, one could argue that that’s a self-serving study for a school like INSEAD, given how their international student experience is such a core component of their offering. EssaySnark is not in a position to critique the academics who put it together; we didn’t study the study and have no background that would allow us to evaluate the way it was put together. We’re just pointing out the obvious, with a reminder to always take into account the source and think of possible biases when you look at outcomes. Again, we’re not trying to cast doubt on it at all, but it did seem worth mentioning, as a little side note.
Also, because we didn’t do a fine-toothed comb review of the study, we don’t know if the results are applicable at all for, say, American students attending an American bschool. Even though most top MBA programs in the States are quick to tout their ~35% international student body, in our experience, there is a lot of segregation among different nationalities in any bschool class. It’s not intentional; it’s just that people tend to flock to those with whom they’re most comfortable. It’s one reason why many of the business schools construct your study group for you. This is of course in addition to the section that they assign you to. The study group is an intentional mix of students based on differing demographics, professional backgrounds, and everything else that they track about you from the application itself.
So, you can expect some degree of international exposure regardless of what school you attend in what geography. However, we cannot extrapolate the findings of this study to most American bschools. There’s really only a few top MBA programs that have this same level of truly internationalism among their students. INSEAD is one, and LBS is another. A few of the schools in Spain may have something semi-comparable.
Perhaps it’s possible that there are Americans at U.S. schools who are sufficiently motivated to engage with their international peers that they have comparable experiences to what were observed in the INSEAD students in that sample. We’re betting, though, that most Americans attending American bschools are not thinking about culture much at all. When you’re at home, you’re not aware of anything about how the world is different or unique based on your specific perspective. You forget those things. While it may be possible that American students at American schools could make a point of seeking out engagement with students from other cultures, the Americans will still be steeped in the American culture, so any positive “integrative” effects seem like they would be hard to come by.
It’s also important to recognize the differentiation that the researchers make. They’re not saying that simply attending a school in a new culture will bring these benefits. They’re saying that it’s the individual student’s psychological orientation to the culture and how they interact with their multicultural peers that dictate this type of mental development.
Thanks again to the former BSer who helped us to stumble across this interesting study!
And another semi-related addendum: Here’s an insightful essay about the study-abroad experience from a position of privilege