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Since we’ve been talking about the Executive MBA…

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We get it, the EMBA is not the preferred format for many applicants interested in bschool.

But guess what? The EMBA is a pretty darned good alternative and many excellent schools have incredible offerings!!

As our recent Post-MBA Perspective series from a former BSer has pointed out, it’s a very individual decision and sometimes people don’t come to it easily.

It’s important to counter the fallacy that you can be “too old” for a regular full-time MBA program — though there is some truth in it, as there always is in the best lies propagated on the internet. Acceptance to bschool is never predicated on age. We have seen plenty (plenty!!) of BSers in their 30s who make it into all the schools in the world. At the same time, there is a standard age range for the cohort in any given program, and the adcoms need to be specifically impressed with someone who brings more years of professional experience with them on their application, in order to make an offer if they’re significantly outside the norm. There are always a lot of moving parts to any MBA application, and to someone who has more than ten years of experience then those moving parts need to be handled carefully in how the presentation to the adcom is made.

And, sometimes it just doesn’t work out, either aiming too high for the profile, or not pitching effectively. And for a BSer who really has decided that yes, business school would be an awesome opportunity and an advantage in furthering his or her career, then sometimes it makes sense to look at other options available.

Do you know how many Executive MBA programs there are? Quite a few! At many of the very best schools.

Here’s a quick lay-of-the-land to get you acquainted with what we would nominate as “the best” EMBA programs in the U.S. for you to consider:

EssaySnark’s Loosely Organized List of Notable Executive MBA Programs

(Basically, any top school that offers an EMBA is going to be on this list; it’s roughly organized by level of selectivity.)

  1. Wharton EMBA SF and Philly – probably the most selective EMBA programs around. Really tough to get into! And worth it if you do.
  2. Columbia EMBA NY – various formats including Friday/Saturday, weekends-only, and partnered EMBA with LBS, etc. More EMBA options than perhaps any other school. Also quite flexible on who they’ll accept; need not be a senior exec to demonstrate fit to a CBS program.
  3. MIT Sloan EMBA – they go for specifically more senior professionals in this track; they also have a shorter format one-year Sloan Fellows MBA for those with more experience than would be a fit for their regular two-year program.
  4. Chicago Booth EMBA Chicago, London or Hong Kong (and part-time MBA programs in Chicago too) – also more flexible on admissions, and currently catering to larger geographies including folks commuting from places like NYC (presumably who didn’t get into Columbia?? commuting for school is really a drag, though more and more students are doing it, to more and more places, especially up and down the West Coast)
  5. Kellogg EMBA Evanston (Chicago) or Miami – where a GMAT isn’t even required! Their Miami option caters to Latin America business, though not exclusively.
  6. NYU Stern with a variety of EMBA and part-time tracks on offer, including a recently launched Washington DC EMBA program, and their very exclusive TRIUM for senior execs
  7. Berkeley Haas EMBA which oddly we don’t hear many BSers being interested in, possibly because Haas has a part-time format which is a very strong draw for those in the Bay Area who want to stay working while pursuing their degree
  8. Michigan Ross EMBA including Global EMBA that had traditionally catered to an international student body interested especially in supply chain and overseas business, though this has changed in recent years
  9. UVA Darden which has had a Global EMBA for some time and has for several years also been expanding into the Washington DC area (Darden went to DC before NYU did, and of course Georgetown McDonough is also in DC)
  10. Yale EMBA which is one of the longer programs (22 months) and which, like Berkeley, we just don’t get that many people saying they’re interested in, but it’s well respected and a high-quality offering
  11. UCLA Anderson EMBA with different cohorts in LA and also through a joint program at National University Singapore
  12. Cornell EMBA with a new-ish NYC option along with a long-running joint program cohosted in Ithaca and at Queen’s University in Canada

Phew! That’s quite a list!

So who’s missing? Well, Stanford GSB has a non-EMBA EMBA — meaning, they have a unique offering that is targeted to the same type of more senior professional as other Executive programs, yet its got a totally different format (full-time residential, much closer to a standard full-time MBA) and a different degree (a Master’s, instead of the coveted little letters of “M-B-A”). It’s nearly identical to the Sloan Fellows program noted above (it was founded through a grant from Alfred Sloan, way back when, just like the MIT version was, and then renamed in the last ten years; LBS has a Sloan format too). The Stanford MSx is an awesome opportunity but we’re carving it out separate since it’s not technically an EMBA. But, it may as well be, in terms of the education offered, and, well, it’s Stanford. Not easy to get in!! At least as competitive as Wharton EMBA. But definitely a valuable option to consider if you’re in the market for a top-notch business education.

Where can you NOT go for an EMBA? There’s actually a handful of schools that don’t offer any formal MBA degree to this cohort, notably Harvard Business School and Dartmouth Tuck.

Some of the EMBA programs listed above are quite accommodating in terms of who they will consider for their programs based on age and career trajectory to date and overall levels of experience (Ross, Columbia, Darden); others (notably NYU, Berkeley, some of MIT’s tracks, etc.) are much more restrictive. Plus, the programs themselves vary widely. Some include travel to different locations with your cohort every semester; others only meet at your university’s campus. Most will require nearly as much group work as a full-time program does with your fellow students, though obviously the manner in which those projects are completed will differ greatly based on the distributed population. So the experience of going to class and meeting with teammates will not be the same. But, if you have diverse responsibilities already based on where your career is at and/or family obligations, then having a more flexible format might actually end up as ideal.

So today’s post is just to help you keep an open mind, and consider your options.

Success Story! A post-MBA retrospective (part 2)

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Let’s continue what we started on Friday! Here’s a Q&A from EssaySnark to a long-ago Brave Supplicant who’s now made it all the way through the process, completed his MBA, and been spit out the other side. Catch up on Part 1 if you missed it, and here is Part 2!
 

## **EssaySnark:** How did you determine if a school met those priorities or not? What was the best resource you used or action you took to learn about the school and decide if it was a fit for you?

**former BSer** Any school on my list would have been fine. Heck, any school in the top 20 or 30 would have worked for my original consulting goal. Mainly this was because I didn’t care about recruiting. After networking into BCG on my own without an MBA, I knew I did not need to depend on the usual recruiting game.

What really changed everything was the visits.

My first visit specifically.

To Tuck.

Ah, Tuck! Tuck is like the high-school crush you move on from, but always remember with a sigh. My visit was amazing, and it helped me realize what all the jabber about “fit” really meant. This, ahem… refocused my priorities, and it’s why Darden eventually rose to the top.

You see, Darden is akin to a southern Tuck, which made it a fantastic fit for me. Furthermore, Darden prides itself on an educational experience built around the case method classroom, which is exactly what I needed to do better in consulting case interview. (The GMAT proved it wasn’t a mental horsepower issue, and my earlier networking provided it wasn’t a fit issue. This left confidence as the problem, and so a classroom built on the case method would be perfect).

The school visits changed my thinking.

At Tuck, I fell in love with the school.

Then, at Wharton, I felt like a number in a large system. A good friend with a Wharton MBA would later tell me that it took her almost a full year to find her crew. Looking back, that would not have been the best place for me. (Wharton is a fantastic school, and “not the best for me” is nearly a distinction without a difference).

At Kellogg, I had a good time. Almost too good of a time. Actually, I was beginning to suspect the hardest part of my MBA would be keeping up with all the twenty-somethings late night shenanigan-izing.

At Darden, they let me visit a real class. And I still remember it clearly. It was the last session of a first-year strategy class. The interactivity and thoughtfulness of the classroom discussion blew me away.

Honestly.

Best classroom I’d ever seen. Hands down.

Darden only lets you visit one class, but I charmed my way into a second one, because I figured the one I had seen was a fluke. So I visited an operations class. I saw the same level of interaction. It was as if the students were teaching the course, while the professor was conducting or directing the discussion.

As you guessed from all that gushing, Darden went to the top of my shortlist.

Actually, Darden turned me down for their regular MBA but wanted me to interview for the EMBA. I was so totally and emotionally invested in the MBA that it took a couple weeks to work through my feelings to make an objective assessment. I boiled the situation down to a simple question. Was an MBA worth $200,000 more than an EMBA? (This is a simplistic estimate based on lost wages and loans, disregarding the NPV of future income, but it was the key question that focused my analysis of the choice.)

Because I had been so caught up in my plan to get an MBA for consulting, it was difficult to admit the EMBA was actually a far better option for me. However, I still stand by this assessment. It would have been a personal and financial step backwards for me to go into a regular MBA.

 
 
 

 

 
Hmmmm….. the plot thickens! More to come as we follow along retrospectively with this former BSer’s adventures to bschool! UPDATE: POSTED HERE! In the meantime, we can offer this post from the ‘snarchive on related topics….!

($) The joint MBA/Master’s app including JD/MBA: How do the schools decide?

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As a follow-on to yesterday’s post on joint MBA + Master’s programs and is it easier to get in, here are some specifics on how things are evaluated. Most universities handle admissions separately for each of their schools. It’s like each school — the business school, the law school — is operating individually within the…

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($) The joint MBA/Master’s app: Is it easier to get in?

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We’ve previously spoken of applying for an MBA along with another graduate degree and today we’ll offer additional points to consider as you’re thinking about dual-degree application strategy, including the perennial question of “Is it easier to get in?????” New programs typically do not get that much interest, so app volumes are usually lower, which…

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($) Older applicant? Why you may not WANT to go to a full-time program.

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We often stay in touch with certain former BSers as they go through the actual GOAL of this whole process and launch into their MBA adventure, and it’s so helpful and interesting to get reports back from the field. One comment from a current student in a recent private exchange with us is worth sharing:…

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Some cool schools give feedback

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Dang. You didn’t make it in. BUT WHY???

Most schools are explicit with a no-feedback policy. All decisions are final, and they’re unable to talk to you about it because they don’t have the bandwidth to field all of those calls.

But some schools are much more generous with their time and attention and encouragement.

For example, if you didn’t make it in to Darden, they’ve often offered the chance to get feedback in case you want to reapply. Usually they make this available in June (mark your calendar now!).

Only a few schools do this. In the past, HBS would do it if they interviewed you and/or put you on the waitlist before rejecting you, though they don’t advertise this policy very loudly and we’re not clear if it’s a one-off thing or a standing offer that they’ll continue to make available if you ask. Tuck will do it too. Yale does it. We understand that Berkeley-Haas is no longer doing it, which is a bummer.

If you go for one of these feedback sessions, just manage expectations. The stuff they say tends to be pretty standard. Unless you’re one of those super qualified candidates who just couldn’t break into bschool this year because there were too many others in your pool, then the adcom is more likely than not going to tell you stuff that you should already know. By the time you go for a feedback session, then hopefully will be able to predict what the admissions person is going to tell you. You should have a sense based on profile self-assessment (or a simple comparison to the school’s class profile) what the issues are. If your college academics are not that strong, or if your GMAT is a little low, then that’s what your adcom person will say. Predictable.

They may also tell you if your essays weren’t up to snuff. Maybe.

Generally speaking, the reports we hear back from BSers who ask for one of these feedback sessions are largely the same. The value of such calls is usually a bit limited. The adcoms aren’t going to tell you REALLY why you were rejected (especially not if the reason was the you came across like a jerk in your app in some way, or if your recommenders did not say nice things about you – it’s unusual but it happens, and these reasons will definitely not be directly disclosed). The adcom peeps are more likely than not going to give you some vague comments about how you’re qualified but it’s competitive, yada yada yada.

It can still be useful to go through the experience but honestly, you hopefully by this stage of the game have done enough self-reflecting and gone back over your candidacy in a more objective light, that you are aware of the deficiencies that may have been in evidence. And, even more hopefully, you’re already taking steps to fix them, in preparation for the coming Round 1 season.

We’re of course always up for taking a look at rejected apps – we have the formal Post-Mortem (aka “Oh noz!!”) review where we go into great detail on every aspect of your application. Or you can just get the Comprehensive Profile Review which lets you understand how things may be perceived by the adcoms in the upcoming cycle.

We do still appreciate the schools that do this. It’s certainly an attempt to be more transparent, and it’s an applicant-friendly policy. But it’s kind of like when someone is breaking up with you; it’s possible you’re going to get some variation of, “It’s not you, it’s me” – or maybe, “It’s not you, it’s your test score.” Sometimes people need to hear that directly from A Person In Power before they’ll decide to actually do something about it, so if you’re skeptical of the assessments you’ve heard elsewhere, then definitely get some time on the calendar with your friendly admissions person and see what they say. No matter what, it shows that you are motivated, and if you reapply then they will see that you took advantage of this opportunity, which can only be a positive.

Also, there are some schools that offer such conversations at the beginning of the process, before you even put together your application to submit. Schools like HEC Paris and certain tracks at Duke (e.g. the Cross-Continent MBA) and also many EMBA programs invite candidates to reach out and connect with their admissions teams for a detailed discussion in advance of applying. Typically how it works is you submit your resume to them and then schedule a call where they talk about that specific program and how you might be a fit. Sometimes they’ll steer you to another of the degree programs that that school offers, but often it’ll be a way to encourage you to apply to that program specifically. It’s a high-touch approach that they find valuable, since it lets them start to build the relationship and gain exposure to what they offer, and it can be great for you as a potential applicant since they even sometimes coach candidates or steer them in a better direction on issues like which test (GRE or GMAT or for EMBA, Executive Assessment) and what type of score would be needed. This is more common for some of the European full-time programs; it’s not something that most of the top U.S. schools offer since they don’t have the ability to meet all the demand that they would have for it. Be sure to dig through all the pages of your school’s website to see about such opportunities, and if an admissions team offers it, then jump on the chance.

 

 
 
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($) What MBA programs are still viable for Round 3?

by EssaySnark

Happy Groundhog Day, Brave Supplicant! To continue with our Round 3 Reality Check series, today we’ll talk about programs that might be in range for an admit even at this stage of the season. In case you missed them: What about Round 3? To Round 3 or not to Round 3 Who / what situations…

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What do you do if you missed Round 2 AND YOU STILL WANT TO APPLY SOMEWHERE NOW?

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Hey BSers! We’re reblahgging this from 2015 because dang, that was three years ago, and this info is timely for where some of you are at today!!!
 

Recently we gave a whole assortment of ideas for what to do if you didn’t apply to bschool yet this season. [2015 post]

And yes, we realize that those answers were unsatisfying to many of you.

“You’re telling me to WAIT, EssaySnark?? Why in heck would I want to WAIT? I procrastinated my way to this point where I missed out on my prime opportunity to apply – but now I realize that that was a mistake! Now I know that I **NEED** to go to bschool. Now I’m ready to do this thing! Why on earth would I WAIT??”

There are in fact a few other options to consider at this time of year. Here are ones for you to consider.

1. A lower-ranked program often still has openings in Round 3.
You don’t even need to go too far down the rankings to find a program that could still be open to an app from you. While we don’t encourage it, we have seen people make it into Cornell, Ross and Darden with a last-round application. If you’re even more flexible (and you have a halfway-decent profile) then a school like Georgetown or USC or Vanderbilt should be in range. It depends on your priorities, and of course on the school. We talked about some bschools where Round 3 is viable before.

2. INSEAD has multiple intakes and rolling admissions.
This means that they sometimes have openings during parts of the season when other schools are full. The more competitive candidate pools will not have the best shot in any INSEAD Round 3 but depending, again, on your profile, there could be an opportunity for you to try for INSEAD right now.

3. LBS also has four rounds – so Round 3 is possible for them.
You’re good to go with a Round 3 on any school that has four rounds. LBS is the main hold-out among top schools that still does this (besides INSEAD but they have a year-round apps, rather than the standard September/October to March/April season). NYU also now has four rounds but their schedule is more like Tuck and Duke, where they all have three deadlines in the timeframe where their peers have two. Anyway: Yes to LBS. It is definitely more competitive than their Round 2 but it’s doable, and you have some time remaining before that date hits, too.

4. Part-time programs are often not yet at capacity. Same with Executive MBAs.
These programs are often still accepting candidates through the summer, and Round 3 is nearly always still feasible. We discussed possible programs where a Round 3 app might work previously.

5. If your profile is ah-maz-ing, you could still make it into a top school.
The problem with this advice is that few people understand what “ah-maz-ing” really means. You can check out our posts here on the blahg about “the Harvard type” as a hint – you need to have a profile that’s near that caliber even if you’re trying for a school like lowly old Tuck in the last round. If you want some guidance on whether you’re all that (or not) – or just get a sense of what you should really be focusing on right now – you can go for our Late Season Strategy Review to get some help on evaluating your chances. And of course, our little booklet-thing called Everything You Need to Know about a Round 3 Application lays all of this out for you in greater detail.

The most important consideration when you’re thinking about applying now: Will it mess up your chances next season if you end up as a reapplicant? That’s a real risk (we go into all of it in the Round 3 booklet). You need to be looking at your cross-season strategy right now. It may seem like you’ve got nothing to lose to submit a bunch of apps at the tail end of the admissions season but that’s not actually how reality works. You need to consider your options carefully.

But yes, every year we see BSers squeak in under the wire in Round 3. We don’t recommend it but if you play your cards right, it can happen. Mostly we see people NOT get in, so don’t get your hopes up too terribly much – but we’re around to help if you want to do the Hail Mary!!!

($) Working during your MBA

by EssaySnark

If you’re going for a part-time MBA, today’s post is not for you. Many part-time MBA programs REQUIRE students to be working while completing the MBA. Today we’re talking about the “why MBA” essay where you toss out the idea that you’ll do an internship during the school year. This brilliant idea gained a foothold…

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No cross-referencing, and some comments on applying for a part-time MBA

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This was in a draft we reviewed sometime last season:

It will be and always has been very important for me to contribute as much as possible to the School Community I am studying at, being fully aware that as a part time student the opportunity to do so is limited. As mentioned in my CV, in my former school community I have been active in various functions.

Emphasis added.

Don’t force the reader to pick up the resume. They have asked you this question for a reason and they expect you to lay out your answer here, not tell them to go look somewhere else. They will already be referencing the resume in conjunction with your application so it’s not useful to make such comments like this. “As mentioned elsewhere” stuff is both distracting (“Hmmm, you mentioned it? I don’t remember.” It sets the reader off thinking about something else), plus extraneous (they already have everything so telling them that they have it seems redundant) and even a tiny bit bossy or scolding (“Are you telling me I should stop what I’m doing and go back? Or are you chastising me for not remembering what you already said, or do you think I should have your background memorized?”). None of these are reactions your reader will consciously have; instead, they’ll just cruise past those words without really stopping. BUT! If there are words your reader will cruise past, then that’s a prime indication that they’re not needed.

Also: “various functions”?

No “various” anything in your essays, or “misc.” or “etc.” either, while we’re at it.

Finally to the point that this person is saying they’re going for a part-time track and so “opportunity to get involved is limited.” Well….. We totally get the sentiment there, and yes it’s true, some schools have fewer opportunities for the part-time students to participate in the full-time student activities, just based on limited time that they’re on campus, and the fact that a lot of the full-time events and meetings are scheduled during the day. That’s a logistical challenge and a drawback of going for a part-time MBA while you’re holding down a full-time job at the same time.

But look at how that’s phrased. It’s almost like the BSer is saying that they won’t get a chance to participate because they’re part-time, which for most schools is not the case at all. The schools invite all students for all things (with some exceptions by program, but those tend to be few). So, if we’re being precise in our language, a better way to say it would be “as a part time student the MY opportunity to do so is WILL BE limited.” Two tiny changes, but can you see what a difference in tone and feeling it creates?

Yup, word choice matters. Think carefully of what you’re trying to say. Then say it. Then go back over it again later, to make sure that what it says is what you really meant.